pharmaciststeve's blog

Here is what at least one corporate pharmacy thinks about their employee pharmacists' professional responsibilities

11 Comments

http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v09/n973/a04.html

In the Nevada case, Clark County district court Judge Douglas W. Herndon dismissed the pharmacies from the suit, noting that the Nevada law creating the task force doesn't specify what action, if any, is required by the pharmacies.

In a statement, Walgreen said: "While we're sympathetic to those injured in Ms. Copening's car accident, we agree with the district judge's decision that our pharmacists fulfilled their legal duties.

Years ago (30+) a judge stated in his ruling that "... a Pharmacist had no more right to warn a patient about the drug they were taking than a grocery store clerk had a responsibility to warn people about their purchase.."

This case is now before the Nevada Supreme Court...

Digest of lawsuit ... woman was obtaining large quantities of controlled substances from numerous pharmacies... all pharmacies were warned by the Nevada controlled substance database.. the pharmacies/Pharmacist did nothing .. not even a note in the computer about the warning

One year later .. woman- while apparently under the influence - hit a guy changing a tire on the side of the road .. killed him & injured someone trying to help him..

The consequences of this case - no matter which way it goes.. could impact all Pharmacists..

If the drugstores prevail .. if the Pharmacist has no legal responsibility other than making sure the Rx is right... bring on the techs and the automation. With automation and e-prescribing.. maybe the insurance industry and corporate Pharmacy will try to get the laws changed that a Pharmacist doesn't even have to be present when refills are done.. after all .. all it has to be is RIGHT... fill them off site in some warehouse..

If the drugstores do not prevail .. Pharmacists are going to be drug into every lawsuit involving a drug.. if you don't carry individual professional liability it will become mandatory and the cost of professional liability insurance is going to go thru the roof.

Comments

s4sanjeev's picturePharmacists4sanjeevJoined: Jan, 2010
Location: Goshen, KY
Posts: 1

I have read all the comments on this post with great interest. Big retailers, independent pharmacies, chain drug stores ..... does it really matter. I never fill a suspicious looking Rx without using the state's Database (KASPER in Kentucky) and calling the prescriber if needed (Normally pulling a KASPER report takes under 20 seconds). I know that any diverted pill can land up in our kids' school bus. There are numerous reports verifying that 30% or more of the kids that pass out high school have tried pain pills, xanax etc at least once (Recreational ...???).

I sure do not want to be the weak link. I believe there should be a serious discussion amongst local pharmacies about sharing such information. I am lucky to have excellent colleagues working in other chain drug stores (Competitors???). We are watchful about any unusual prescriptions and call each other to see a pattern. We might not be as busy as other pharmacies (around 300 rxs in 13 hrs). We also have excellent support from our local law enforcement. They have a Drug Task force.

pharmaciststeve's picturePharmacistpharmaciststeveJoined: Jul, 2009
Location: New Albany, IN
Posts: 123

http://www.lvrj.com/news/pharmacies-not-liable-in-case-80104447.html

The verdict is in !

Here is what the Nevada Supreme court stated on Dec 24, 2009

The Nevada Supreme Court ruled 5-2 Thursday that eight pharmacies in Las Vegas cannot be sued for negligence in the death of a man killed by a motorist under the influence of prescription drugs purchased at their businesses.

Justices decided Nevada's pharmacy laws "are not intended to protect the general public from the type of injury sustained in this case."

Pharmacies do not have a legal duty to protect people injured by their customers, they stated.

"The duty (under state law) is to the person for whom the prescription was written, the pharmacy's customer, if anyone, and not for the general public's protection," stated the court in the majority opinion.

The Justices stated that PHARMACIES do not have a legal duty... So where do PHARMACISTS stand in this equation?

Does this mean that the permit holder (corporate pharmacy) can dictate what we PHARMACISTS can and cannot fill and when. Have they delegated all responsibilities to the employer.. or did the supreme court just exempt corporate pharmacy from any and all liabilities of operating a pharmacy?

adaku's picturePharmacy TechnicianadakuJoined: Aug, 2009
Location: El Sobrante, CA
Posts: 10

This is a pharmacy issue I'm quite familiar with. Where I work (in CA), we don't use a PDMP but we catch people just by a little old fashioned professional scrutiny.

We had a patient once that progressively was prescribed larger and larger quantities of PC via harassing his MDs and switching MDs if they didn't give the patient more refills. It got to the point that he was going through one pint every three days. We decided to call the MD and express concern about the frequency of the PC refills, and the MD suggested we give the patient MORE AT A TIME so that the patient does not have to come in so often. Realizing that the MD was essentially feeding the patient's drug addiction, we as a pharmacy made the professional decision to refuse to refill further refills for that patient. Imagine if we kept filling it, they might have died from respiratory depression or overdose, and who would be to blame?

Admittedly, because I do work in an independent pharmacy, we tend to get patients from the same MDs and we know the MDs in the area that will write narcotics prescriptions for anyone (there are MDs like that) so it's easier to know which prescriptions to refuse. With all of that being said, I think that the pharmacies should have taken the PDMP warning letter more seriously because it was a direct warning, no detective work required.

I'm still not sure whether or not I believe the pharmacists should be held legally responsible for the accident. On one hand, they were warned that the patient could be abusing drugs, but at the same time how does one accurately scrutinize an unusual drug regimen? You'd think to call the MD, but some MDs (like the one I encountered on the phone) do not see a problem with the regimen. There is no 100% sure-fire way of knowing whether or not a patient needs a lot of pain medication for a condition or if the patient is abusing drugs, so is it fair to scrutinize the pharmacist? Shouldn't the MD be under fire?

Reading this makes me wonder, if the accident never occurred, would the affiliated doctors and pharmacists have still gotten in trouble?

And another question. I'm not familiar with how PDMPs work, but if they see that a patient is receiving too many narcotics, do they investigate the prescribing MDs?

pharmaciststeve's picturePharmacistpharmaciststeveJoined: Jul, 2009
Location: New Albany, IN
Posts: 123

"Realizing that the MD was essentially feeding the patient's drug addiction, we as a pharmacy made the professional decision to refuse to refill further refills for that patient. Imagine if we kept filling it, they might have died from respiratory depression or overdose, and who would be to blame?"

I have seen docs that refuses to treat mod/severe chronic pain with the appropriate long acting opiate .. but .. will keep giving them short acting meds... respiratory depression is very rare in a opiate tolerant patient. Did anyone - at the pharmacy - bother to talk to this patient? Most addicts have mental health issues and there is such a thing as a "pseudo addict" where the patient is unable get adequate pain management from one prescriber.

Since your pharmacy apparently does not use your state's PDMP.. then you have no definitive information to make an informed decision.

Did your Pharmacy ever send a letter (preferred certified) to the prescriber with their concerns about the consumption of opiates by this particular patient? Documentation can go a long way to protect the Pharmacy/Pharmacist(s) from liability.

IMO.. if the prescriber ignores or dismisses the letter of concern. The Pharmacy/Pharmacist has done the most he/she can do.. to protect themselves and the patient.

By just turning the patient away.. all you have done is eliminated the opportunity to interact with the patient and perhaps uncover what is actually the underlying problems and maybe able to make an appropriate referral... otherwise... you have just sent the patient to a Pharmacy/Pharmacist who only cares or only has time to just fill Rxs.. whose only concern is how many Rxs/bodies they can turn-over each day.

IF the liq med was HCD/APAP... I would be more concerned with the amount of APAP the patient was taking than the amount of opiates.. He/she could be at a higher risk of "frying" their liver than respiratory depression.

Paul Badger's picturePharmacy TechnicianPaul BadgerJoined: Dec, 2009
Location: Mechanicsville, VA
Posts: 4

Color me curious:

Is the use of a PDMP something that an experienced technician could do? Total honesty: I have no idea if VA even has one, and if they do how I would access it. Because my pharmacy is 24 hours and very high volume, I know for a reasonable certainty that I have "shoppers" who are not using insurance and purchasing controlled substances in greater quantity than they should. But if I wanted to utilize this database, I would have no idea how.

As technicians become licensed and more become nationally certified, the level of professionalism will increase. This is one area where pharmacists can utilize their senior technicians, which in turn will protect the pharmacists and pharmacies from such liability.

pharmaciststeve's picturePharmacistpharmaciststeveJoined: Jul, 2009
Location: New Albany, IN
Posts: 123

According to the DEA website:
As of September 2009, 33 states have operational PDMPs that have the capacity to receive and distribute controlled substance prescription information to authorized users. States with operational programs include:

Alabama, Arizona, California, Colorado, Connecticut, Hawaii, Idaho, Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Kentucky, Louisiana, Maine, Massachusetts, Michigan, Mississippi, Nevada, New Mexico, New York, North Carolina, North Dakota, Ohio, Oklahoma, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, South Carolina, Tennessee, Texas, Utah, Virginia, Vermont, West Virginia, and Wyoming.

Seven states (Alaska, Florida, Kansas, Minnesota, Oregon, New Jersey and Wisconsin) and one U.S. territory (Guam) have enacted legislation to establish a PDMP, but are not fully operational.

Probably only a Pharmacist and/or Pharmacy can sign up to access this database... these databases are often under the Pharmacy Board.. check your particular state.

There was a recent announcement of a new database where Pharmacies/Pharmacist can search a database that will divulge if a patient has insurance... between these two databases.. it should not be hard to isolate who the doc shopper are...

edsonrph's picturePharmacistedsonrphJoined: Aug, 2009
Location: clackamas, OR
Posts: 495

The big retailers are in it for the money and will throw RPhs under the bus and protect themselves.

pharmaciststeve's picturePharmacistpharmaciststeveJoined: Jul, 2009
Location: New Albany, IN
Posts: 123

It would appear in this particular case, collectively the pharmacists involved walked in front of the bus! What is not clear is if the notification was sent to the store and the store manager got it and filed it in the circular file... without sharing it with the store's Pharmacists. However, it does seem strange that every store manager would have tossed the notice. Was the notice sent via certified mail and who signed for it...It also seems strange that the control board never did a follow up after this gal continued to get large amounts of controlled substances. It would appear that many entities were involved in the ball being dropped.. but it would appear that the Pharmacists will get the short end of this shaft.

Those Pharmacists in those states that have controlled substance databases .. that do not use them.. will be the easiest targets.. if this decision does not go in favor of the defendant.. It will not take long for this decision to ripple across the rest of the states and force those states that don't have controlled substance databases to rush thru legislation to implement one.

KMiller's picturePharmacy TechnicianKMillerJoined: Aug, 2009
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
Posts: 131

As of January 2009 Nevada Prescription Drug Monitoring went to an independent outside collection service. They are not as involved with reporting pharmacy shopping as they are in doctor shopping.
Some states see PDMP as worthless.
Wasignton state suspended the program due to budget constraints and a lack of convitions from the program.
If information given to PDMP is going to be used against pharmacists the program needs to be centrallized for all states, and someone other than the pharmacy is going to need to be responsible to report data. If the pharmacy is reporting the information used against thier employee and themselves they are protected by the 5th amendment. Not required to self incriminate.

pharmaciststeve's picturePharmacistpharmaciststeveJoined: Jul, 2009
Location: New Albany, IN
Posts: 123

PDMP themselves are NOT worthless... their utilization by health care professionals is pathetically LOW... making the collection of the data - WORTHLESS. Given that those who do not use the state's PDMP to help isolate shoppers and nothing short of enablers. There is a new database just becoming available that will allow Pharmacists to verify if a person has or has not insurance coverage... across a huge insurance database - much like Medicare Part D has provided since 2006. Will Pharmacists use this database to isolate shoppers.. I doubt it.

Unless a Pharmacist is working in a rather new store... running a report on all NEW PATIENTS presenting a new Rx for a controlled substance would not be more than a handful of reports being ran each day.

My experience is that within months of implementing such a store policy...the store will see a dramatic drop in the numbers of shoppers that show up at your counter... meaning that you will have to run fewer reports.

But time is money and there are no adverse consequences for failing/refusing to use existing technology to help assure that you are not assisting drug abuse or drug diversion.

If a pharmacy/Pharmacist starts running reports on all new pts/rxs and decline to fill rxs for pts who are clearly taking more meds from more docs/pharmacies that would see appropriate.. there is no self-incrimination.

Notify the docs & pharmacies involved and let them make the decision if they wish to continue business as usual or like the Nevada case.. you can wait until something unthinkable happens and you have to defend your actions or lack of actions.

I am sure that any Pharmacist that works for a corporate pharmacy will have some verbiage in their P&P where you violated some policy and they will hang the Pharmacist out to wave in the breeze and claim they have no liability since the Pharmacist violated company policy. And the way that insurance companies are today.. at the very most they will settle and the black mark will go on your license.

If it does go to trial I can hear the plantiff's attorney with the Pharmacist on the stand...
Are you aware that there is a PDMP available in your state ? you answer yes

What does it cost to be able to use it? you answer NOTHING

What does it cost to run a report ? you answer NOTHING

So Mr/Mrs Pharmacist... you had the information available to you..but you chose not to use it.. that could have prevented harm/death to my client? you answer YES!

So Mr/Mrs Pharmacist... isn't it your primary professional duty to protect the public health? You answer YES

You my client was harmed/dead because you didn't do all you could do to prevent this from happening and doing your professional duty? Your answer ???

This Nevada case is just the first of what could be many such cases to come... and if corporate pharmacy's P&P doesn't now cover this situation to make it the Pharmacist's fault there will be changes made so the corporation less -if at all - liable.

Corporate pharmacy has "the market" and stock holders to keep happy.. staff is very expendable to keep the former happy.

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